While San Francisco Mayor London Breed was making news by unveiling her plans to support SFUSD schools with a new School Stabilization Team, GSV was engaged in a timely discussion with the District’s Senior Executive Director HR, Swen Ervin, about the State of Black Education in San Francisco. Ervin talks challenges, solutions, and the unique approaches involved in recruiting and retaining Black and Brown educators in a City whose Black population makes up barely 6 percent of its residents.
Click below to watch the engaging discussion, or read the transcript of the interview, also below:
00:02
Keonnis Taylor: Greetings. Greetings. My name is Keonnis Taylor and I am so excited to welcome Swen Ervin. Welcome, Swen.
00:14
Swen Ervin: Thank you. It’s good to be with you.
00:16
Keonnis Taylor: Thank you so much. Well, I am with Great School Voices and I’m here to share this space with Swen Ervin, who is the Senior Executive Director HR for the San Francisco Unified School District. And Swen, it is just such a pleasure and an honor to have you on today with us. And if you’re okay with it, we can just jump right on in.
00:43
Swen Ervin: I’m ready. Let’s do it.
00:45
Keonnis Taylor: All right. Awesome. So first we’d like you to tell us who you are and what you do to raise the bar for youth.
00:56
Swen Ervin: So, as you mentioned, I’m currently serving as senior executive director of human resources for San Francisco Unified School District. I’ve been there for almost eleven years. It’ll be eleven years in two weeks from now. And I started there as a recruiter, a teacher recruiter specifically focused on recruiting Black and brown teachers to the school district in support of Black and brown students, but generally in support of all students. Right. So we knew that the number of Black and brown teachers was not reflective of the number of Black and brown students. And so we want to make a difference in that area. This is just my current role in education, working in human resources. But my experience and background in education goes back pretty far. In fact, I’ve only worked in education as an adult, technically.
02:06
Swen Ervin: My first job was as a student peer tutor when I was 16 in high school. So that was my first ed job. And I come from a family of educators. I’m also from Gary, Indiana. And so I had a lot of Black teachers, went to predominantly Black schools, and know the excellence that can come when the community, Black students, Black educators and Black caregivers come together to make changes for kids. So that’s what I try to do every day and try to reflect that excellence out into the community.
02:50
Keonnis Taylor: Beautiful. You know, I have to say that there’s something about northern Indiana, because I myself am also from northern Indiana, South Bend. I love hearing of other professionals that are from Michigan or Chicagoland, from Indiana specifically, just because it’s such a far off place in the world, yet we often seem to rise to the top.
03:26
Swen Ervin: Great things happening, great people.
03:29
Keonnis Taylor: That’s right. So, moving on, can you tell us a little bit more about your background and your journey to the Bay Area through education. Knowing that you started in Gary, Indiana.
03:41
Swen Ervin: Yep. So I did not really think that education was going to be a path for me. When I went into college, I attended Purdue University for undergrad and originally planned to be an engineer. That did not work out for me. That did not end up being where my passions were, and so I decided to go into advertising and public relations. Post graduation, I found myself really trying to search for what I wanted to do, and I ended up working for the university, actually in the international students and scholars office, and eventually moved up to being an admissions assistant director. And I worked at Purdue admissions for eight years or so before going back to get my master’s degree, which I got in human resources management. So I kind of pivoted career trajectories a bit, but with the full intention of remaining in the education space.
04:50
Swen Ervin: While I was doing my master’s degree. I did an internship the summer of 2012 where I met a guy. We were out in Boston. He was originally from Las Vegas. We became friends and I became friends with a friend of his who was from the Bay Area. We stayed in touch when we went back to finish our last years, my last year of my masters, their last year of law school. And during that time, right after graduation, I was still looking for a job. A friend of a friend was working for San Francisco Unified and said, oh, you know, we have an opening in our HR department. If you know of anybody who would be interested, let me know. And so they forwarded that job posting to me. I read it and I was like this…
05:50
Swen Ervin: It’s like somebody wrote this job specifically for me. It tied education, human resources and diversity recruitment specifically all together. And I thought it was the perfect job, so I ended up pursuing it. Interviewing. I was offered the job and then moved to the Bay Area. And it’ll be, I arrived in the Bay eleven years ago tomorrow.
06:20
Keonnis Taylor: Wow, talk about timing.
06:29
Swen Ervin: And, yeah, so the whole eleven years I’ve been with San Francisco Unified again, starting out as a recruiter, specifically focused on recruiting Black and Latinx teachers for the District, then moved over to focusing on kind of civil service staff, became senior analyst, then manager, then director, and then pivoted to focus on the other side of the house, the operation side. So supporting with benefits leaves, salary, workers comp, those sorts of HR areas, and now serving as senior executive director, kind of overseeing day to day operations of the entire department, both on the staffing side and on the operations side.
07:19
Keonnis Taylor: Wow. Wow. 20 years in education, that is no small thing. No small thing at all.
07:28
Swen Ervin: Yeah, it does. Since you’re kind of focused on your… Your customer keeps getting younger, so it is an interesting space to be. I don’t feel old, but, you know, when I interact with students, they’re like, wow, you were born in the 19 hundreds. And I’m like, okay.
07:50
Keonnis Taylor: Doesn’t that just sound crazy?
07:52
Swen Ervin: It does sound crazy.
07:56
Keonnis Taylor: I couldn’t agree more. It seems like, you know, the young people just keep getting younger.
08:01
Swen Ervin: They do.
08:02
Keonnis Taylor: And I can only imagine the changes that have occurred over the last 20 years. I mean, you have such a specific perspective. Being an educator happens in so many different ways, one in the classroom, but also one being in charge of the people who go into the classroom. So I just wonder what kinds of changes that you’ve seen throughout the education system, from Indiana and the Midwest to California over the last 20 years.
08:38
Swen Ervin: I mean, one thing I can definitely say is that ever since even going back to No Child Left Behind, there is more and more bureaucratic interventions in education. Teachers can teach, right. And I think if you leave with so many different fields, if you leave it to the experts, they’re more likely to figure it out, right. But because there are so many kind of top down decisions that are being made in education in so many ways, educators don’t have the space to have the creativity that will help more students learn. And I think that, you know, excellent teachers figure out a way, right. To make sure that their kids are learning every day. Another difference I would say…. I definitely feel that we can do more in terms of partnership around education.
09:45
Swen Ervin: And by partnership, I mean between the teacher, the student’s caregiver, whomever that is. Right. And the community, making sure that we all have some ownership in what happens in our schools. I think a lot of people feel like, well, I don’t have kids, or I don’t have kids in that school. So what happens there is none of my business, but we all live in the same community, right? And we interact with each other outside of the school building, and so we all have a part to play and some skin in the game when it comes to what happens in the classroom, or we should anyway.
10:28
Swen Ervin: So I would love to see more of those partnerships happening between the parents and the teachers who ideally are working together in support of what the student needs to be successful in the classroom and in life, and that we are finding ways as a community to positively impact what’s happening in the classroom. I think that we had some more of that in the past, and it would be great to get back to that.
11:03
Keonnis Taylor: I couldn’t agree with you more. And what you just said really resonated because it was similar to what you said in your previous answer, which highlighted the importance of relationships and community. So I know that your role now, professionally is in San Francisco, but you are actually a resident of Oakland. Is that correct?
11:27
Swen Ervin: I am.
11:28
Keonnis Taylor: So that, I think, makes it even more relevant and present what you say about the importance of what happens when you walk outside the door. And in that vein, I’d like you to tell us, what is the state of Black education in San Francisco, and how does it compare with Oakland, since you have a view on young people in both places?
11:53
Swen Ervin: Yeah, I mean, there is still so much to do in San Francisco and in Oakland in support of our Black kids. And I think one of the big differences is demographic. The makeup of Oakland demographically is so very different than that of San Francisco. And that can make it harder for Black educators and Black students to get what they need, because in San Francisco, it’s such a small percentage of the overall both student body. But also the resident makeup of San Francisco, I think, is only like 5% of the population right now, is Black. And so it’s harder to get your needs met and your voices heard in that space when you constitute such a small percentage, regardless of who the mayor is or who’s in power, the power structures are the power structures.
13:01
Swen Ervin: And so as a community, it requires a lot more kind of yelling to make sure your voice is heard. So I think that has also led to some challenges with recruiting teachers to teach in San Francisco. I could imagine that it’s easier to do so in Oakland just because, again, there’s a much larger Black community in Oakland. In San Francisco, you know, I’ve had teachers who I’ve recruited come back to me and say, I love my school, I love my kids. There is no Black middle class in San Francisco. And so I am having a hard time finding community and building community. And so I’m going to go back home to Houston, or I’m going to go back home to DC, or I’m going to go back home to Atlanta.
13:58
Swen Ervin: Where you have these large Black middle class communities and opportunities for professional connections, personal connections, building community. Right. We have to recognize that in the same way that it has a negative impact on our students to feelings of, like, social isolation, where they might be the only Black kid in a class or one of two or whatever, our teachers feel that as well. And so when you’re the only Black teacher in your school. And that means that you deal with everything Black. It can take a toll on you and lead to either leaving the profession or not wanting to be in that specific space, even if you do love the kids and you love the school community as a whole. So I think that can be a big challenge and a difference between the two cities.
14:56
Keonnis Taylor: That was a lot to hear, especially as one, and you may have shared this experience as well, but as one who has been the only Black person in a room, which I’m sure many people who live in the Bay Area have had that experience. Absolutely right. And it also, I think, relates back to your earlier comment about community and the importance of it. But I don’t think that many people necessarily make the connection between the need for community outside of the school and the ability to retain Black teachers, which is so important for our youth, for the students.
15:39
Swen Ervin: Absolutely.
15:42
Keonnis Taylor: In that vein, can you tell us as a recruiter, how you approach improving education for Black and brown students?
15:52
Swen Ervin: Yeah. So when I was focused on that specific area of work, I really focused on supporting the educators to be able to feel like they had, they could see themselves long term in that place. Right. And so one of the things I would do is that recruitment didn’t end at job placement, and that’s usually where it ends. I recruit, you accept the job, you’re in the job. Now my work is done. I move on to filling the next role with the teachers that I was recruiting. And I had a little cohort that I called the focused outreach group; fog. So it was very San Francisco.
16:39
Swen Ervin: So with my teachers that I recruited through the focused outreach group, after they started their teaching role, I went to visit their classrooms to see how things were going, what it looked like for them as a teacher, how their classroom management was going, but really having a conversation with them while their kids were at recess about how is it going for you? How is your relationship with your principal? Is there anything that I can do to help? Because, again, going back to what I was saying earlier, you have to also make sure that the adult is okay. If they’re okay, they’re more likely to persist in the role, to see themselves moving into a leadership position or staying long term. And some of the folks that I recruited did end up moving into assistant principal roles, and so forth.
17:40
Swen Ervin: But again, just making sure they were comfortable and they were okay was kind of the last part of the recruitment process. You have to make sure folks are stable. We also would, going back to the feelings of social isolation, have events where educators of color would get to know each other, meet other educators from other schools, have opportunities to exchange contact information, all of that so that they could build networks across schools and across the city that way. Even if they were the only Latina teacher or the only Black teacher at their school, that they knew other educators at other schools and could build that network and build that community. And so all of that, at the end of the day, is for the adults.
18:37
Swen Ervin: So that, so that our kids continue to see reflections of themselves in a position of authority. Right. It does something for a child of color to see a person who looks like them in a position of authority. And teachers hold very much that kind of role within our society. And if they don’t, they should. Right. And so having opportunities for kids to have windows, right. A vision of what their future could look like. Maybe they want to be a teacher when they grow up and a mirror. So having someone who reflects their identity back to them is really critical, and especially for Black and brown students. But again, it helps all students to see diverse faces in positions of authority. Right.
19:35
Swen Ervin: And so ideally, then, in 10, 20, 30 years, it’s not weird to see someone who doesn’t look like you in a position of leadership. Right. So that’s the goal.
19:50
Keonnis Taylor: These things do matter.
19:52
Swen Ervin: Absolutely.
19:54
Keonnis Taylor: Now, you’ve spoken and really just been quite inspiring, talking about your approaches to providing solutions to teachers and to providing diverse experiences for students in the classroom. But can you tell me a little bit more about some of the challenges with recruiting and retaining Black teachers? I’m thinking of some stories that I’ve heard of teachers not feeling welcome. We talked about the statistical numbers of racial differences in the cities across the Bay Area. But can you speak a little bit more specifically about some of the challenges that you’ve had in recruitment?
20:42
Swen Ervin: Sure. So I think I’ve touched on some of them already. Right. The kind of social aspect of feelings, of isolation. I think another one that is kind of misunderstood. And there is some research about this. If you ask people who aren’t teachers why they think teachers leave the profession or don’t stay, they will probably point to at least one of two things, kind of the social prestige part, right. That don’t value teachers as a society the way that either we used to or that we should. We don’t hold teachers in high enough esteem. And so why would someone want to do that job where they’re going to be disrespected or what have you? So that’s the first. Or people will say, people don’t teach because teachers don’t get paid well. Obviously, those two things are connected. And in a way, that’s true.
21:53
Swen Ervin: Right. And this is a specific challenge in the Bay Area. It’s not specific to the Bay Area, but it is specifically one in the Bay Area. Right. With living being what it is here, it can be difficult to be a teacher. And a lot of teachers have a side hustle or three side hustles. Right. But the data on asking teachers why, what would make them stay in the profession? You get different answers depending on racial group. So generally from white teachers, you will hear that they want more money, but particularly from Latino and Black teachers, it’s actually not about the money. It’s about the opportunities for growth. It’s about not being socially isolated, not being only asked to deal with the problematic Black kids. Right.
23:02
Swen Ervin: Or the problematic Latinx kids, but being treated like a professional, like everyone else, and not like a glorified, like, security guard, essentially. And so. And so that just shows that people just want to be respected. That’s what helps us retain Black teachers is treating our Black teachers with respect, giving them the opportunity to grow as humans and as professionals, which is what we all want in our various professions. Right. And so that’s easy. And it’s great that there are organizations like the Black Teacher Project, for example, that is focused on supporting Black educators and making sure that they stay in the profession. And I’m grateful to have had the opportunity of helping to launch Black Teacher Project with San Francisco Unified a number of years ago with Doctor Mosely. And it’s a great program.
24:14
Swen Ervin: So anything we can do to support our Black educators in their own professional growth so that they can help our kids grow, we need to do that because it’s important that they be there.
24:28
Keonnis Taylor: Thank you for that. And I couldn’t agree with you more. I think that Doctor Micia Moseley is an American hero. What she’s doing with Black teachers here in Oakland and across the country is incredible. Kudos to her and to you supporting that work as well. Well, we heard about Black Teacher Project. Are there other resources specifically for Black students and or Black teachers?
25:01
Swen Ervin: Yeah, there are a lot of programs, both, that are embedded within school districts and in the community that help students. I know that in San Francisco, we have the African American Achievement and Leadership Initiative, which is a department within the superintendent’s office. They lead our, like, manhood program that exists both in Oakland and in San Francisco, but also do other programs after school and during the summer for youth like Black Star Rising, for example. And we also know that the Black Teacher project is housed under the National Equity Project, which also does a lot of equity based work that support folks in the education space.
26:00
Swen Ervin: And so in San Francisco, we also have a chapter of the alliance of Black school Educators, and they serve as a kind of meeting point for our Black educators to get support from elder educators who have been in the game for a longer time, have mentorship opportunities, have opportunities to go to conferences and things like that. So it’s. A lot of work is being done. I often think about how we could be more strategic in kind of un-siloing our efforts in a way, because there’s amazing work being done in pockets here and there. And it would be great for us to be able to not duplicate efforts, but work together with other programs and other groups. And that is. It’s happening. You know, I think, you know, you hear about seven degrees or six degrees separation. And I always say with…
27:16
Swen Ervin: …with Black people there, it’s not six degrees, like two degrees. Right? We grew up, like an hour and a half from each other. Who knew? And I bet you we know. We know one person in common, but we probably know a bunch of other people in common, too. We just haven’t gotten there yet. And so I know, especially in the Bay Area, like, folks are talking, folks are working with one another and are making those connections. And so as long as we keep doing that, we can continue to be more effective at wrapping our arms around our kids.
27:53
Keonnis Taylor: Thank you for that. And shout out to Rachel Bowlin.
27:57
Swen Ervin: Yes, shout out.
28:00
Keonnis Taylor: Can you tell us, in your experience, what barriers exist to improving education for Black students? We talked about some of the resources and challenges for retaining and recruiting teachers. But what are some of the actual barriers or hurdles that are in place that you’ve seen for improving education for Black kids?
28:23
Swen Ervin: One is that we have to reimagine the systems that we have in place. The system of education that we’ve inherited and exists now is not made for us.
28:41
Keonnis Taylor: Yeah, I’ve heard that before.
28:43
Swen Ervin: It was intentionally, in fact, made to exclude us. And before 1954, before round v board, that’s exactly what it did. Right. And so that is, institutions have a very long memory, and they will not change if you don’t make them change. Right. And they will continue to impose their will and their way of doing things until you interrupt that. And so that’s the biggest one for me, is that the way that school districts operate? I won’t say that they are broken. They’re working exactly how they were intended to work. Right. That is not in service of Black students. Right. So I think it’s important for us to not even so much reimagine education but dismantle it and do it a different way.
29:51
Swen Ervin: And I often think, like, what have we forgotten from the days of segregate, of school segregation that we could be bringing back. Right.
30:12
Keonnis Taylor: When there more things working in our favor.
30:13
Swen Ervin: Right. Like, we now know that all the moves for integration did not come without a cost. And we have some understanding of what those costs are now. But I, but I don’t think we’ve really asked ourselves that question of, like, how can we recoup that cost? How can we get some of that back? And what were we doing before? And I think, you know, making sure that, again, that Black and brown kids have Black and brown teachers, I think is a way of mitigating some of those impacts. Right. I was very fortunate to have Black and brown teachers my entire life.
31:07
Swen Ervin: And so I know very clearly what, like, a Black person holding high expectations for me, a Black person knowing my worth and telling me what I was worth and then expecting me to perform up to what they knew I was able to do and have the, kept the capacity to do. I know what that looks like. Right. And not enough of our kids today understand it that way. And so going back to what I said earlier about partnership, education is not just the thing that happens at school.
31:52
Keonnis Taylor: Absolutely.
31:53
Swen Ervin: I learned a lot at school, but I learned a lot at home. And so, again, thinking about ways that we can support not only our kids and their full learning, but also if their parents or their caregivers need support in their learning. Right. What can we do to support them as well? It’s like one of my favorite parts of the movie, Lean on Me, when Joe Clark is like, “We’re going to have tutoring on the weekends and if, to help the kids learn how to read and if their parents can’t read, they can come.” Right. It’s that level of intervention to make sure that the learning that happens in the school isn’t lost at home. It’s reinforced at home, and then what is learned at home is reinforced at school. And recreating that continuum is really important.
33:01
Swen Ervin: And I’m really grateful. You know, we talked before about me having a school mom. I was very fortunate to have for the most part, my mom was able to be a stay at home parent when I was a kid, and I hated it then. She was always at the school, and all the teachers knew her, and some of the teachers thought she worked at the school. They saw her almost every day. But I really do, you know, now that I’m an adult, I really do appreciate and honor her for being that presence. And it was… She wasn’t just my mom. She was the mother for whatever kids needed her to be that at that moment. So. So, yeah, I think that would, those things would do a lot to break down some of these barriers.
33:55
Keonnis Taylor: Well, I love hearing that. And it is such an inspiration to see someone who’s accomplished as much as you have tell the story of having your mother be in the classroom and in the school. Especially for myself, having a young child in school, I certainly have signed up for several more volunteer opportunities since our last conversation.
34:21
Swen Ervin: Yes, I love that.
34:23
Keonnis Taylor: Absolutely. Now I’ll ask our final question, but I feel like you really touched on a lot of it in your last response related to the district and the various things that could help turn things around. But specifically, what can schools, districts, and communities do differently to improve the state of Black education?
34:55
Swen Ervin: I think that the overall thing that needs to be done is to stop seeing our color as, like, a thing to be overcome.
35:18
Keonnis Taylor: For us.
35:20
Swen Ervin: I’m sorry.
35:22
Keonnis Taylor: For Black and brown folks or for others to stop seeing it that way?
35:28
Swen Ervin: Other folks to not see our culture, our background, our race, our color as something to be overcome. We have a specific culture. We have a specific language. We have community rituals. We have a way of being that is shared. And it, to an extent, it doesn’t matter if you’re from Oakland, Gary, Philly, Atlanta, Houston.
That’s how we know we have a culture, because we have a certain understanding, and it doesn’t matter where we’re from, the United States, right, that we share. And so I just want us to be seen as, like, the distinct, unique, special people we are and to think about what that means for our young people, right. That they can learn.
36:48
Swen Ervin: That they can be held to the same high expectations as you hold any other student to. And that I’ve seen Black kids and brown kids rise to those occasions. Right. A story that I always tell when I was a recruiter. You know, you have a territory, so you see the same people over and over, year after year, on your territory, right. And I was wrapping up my season. I had one more week of travel to go, and I was going to Gary, and so I asked my colleagues from other colleges. Are you, are you guys going to do these fairs in Gary next week or do any high school visits? And they were like, no, you know, it’s not really, you know, I talked it over with my director. It’s not really worth the effort to go… Wow, okay..
37:53
Swen Ervin: And I said, well, I went to those schools, and you and me have the same job. So how do you know that the next you or the next me isn’t at that school right there? I was like, I’ve got doctors in my class. I’ve got lawyers in my class. I’ve got business owners, chemists, ministers, all sorts of people who graduated in my class. Right. And you are just completely disregarding those kids because of what? Right. And that still happens. And that even happens in the Bay Area. Kids are disregarded. And so we really, and I do mean we… I’m always thinking about, what can I be doing?
38:49
Swen Ervin: And it is difficult, again, for me, working in San Francisco and living in Oakland, where, because during school hours and business hours, I’m not in the community where I live, right across the bay, supporting another community. But how can we do more or figure out more ways to be involved in our schools again, whether or not we’re parents? Like, how can. How can our friends who are parents bring us in to support kids at their schools? Right. I would love to do that. Like, I’ve had opportunities to talk to students about my career trajectory, because a lot of kids don’t even think about all the jobs it takes to run a school district. They know the teacher, they know the principal, the secretary at the front office, the custodian, the people who serve the lunch.
39:47
Swen Ervin: But there’s electricians, there’s HR directors, there’s mechanics, there are painters. There are all sorts of people who make a school district run, and those are career opportunities for our young people to be able to stay in the Bay area and have a career in their hometown. Right. That they don’t even think about. And one of the things that I told the kids is, like, you, like, if you have imposter syndrome, now’s the time to get rid of that. So do whatever work you need to do to work through it, because I guarantee you, any room that you make it to, you deserve to be there.
40:39
Keonnis Taylor: Oh, absolutely.
40:40
Swen Ervin: If you’re coming from the Bayview, if you’re coming from the mission, if you’re coming from wherever – Chinatown, you’re coming from wherever you’re coming to or coming from, if you make it into a room. You have every right to be in that room more than anybody else. So as long as you remember that, the sky’s the limit for you, right?
41:02
Keonnis Taylor: Absolutely.
41:03
Swen Ervin: Yeah.
41:05
Keonnis Taylor: I think just an exclamation point to that is just to look at pop culture right now and see the influence of Black and brown kids on the world just having the mindset, not just for the kids seeing themselves reflected in pop culture, but for older people as well, seeing the influence of these young people are having on the way we speak, the way we dress, the way we work, the way we show up in our communities. I think I agree with you 110%.
41:44
Swen Ervin: And we have to not forget that it wasn’t that long ago that were where our kids are now, right? And we had dreams, that we had aspirations, and we wanted to be seen, and we wanted to be understood. And now, as an adult, what you may see as a behavior is a cry for support, a cry for help, a cry to be understood, a cry to be seen. Right. And so, you know, I think there is a tendency, and this is documented, a tendency to over punish what some cultures might be seen as just, like, youthful indiscretion or being a little rambunctious, right. Our kids are penalized and, you know, may end up entering the system for doing the same thing.
42:45
Swen Ervin: And so I think it’s also up to us adults to combat that narrative on behalf of our kids.
42:54
Keonnis Taylor: I agree, and thank you for saying that. Combating that narrative on behalf of our kids is something that we can do as parents, as community members, just as stakeholders in the lives of young people. I’m reminded of a class that I took probably ten years ago in San Francisco. I think it was at UC Berkeley extension. And the professor of the class was the daughter of a prominent politician and really used that parent’s platform in the syllabus and what she taught in the class. One of the things that I will never forget was that as much as we all looked up to that professor and that politician, that one of the things that she said was that demography is destiny. And I thought, how?
44:10
Swen Ervin: That’s deep.
44:11
Keonnis Taylor: It blew my mind that we’re sitting here taking a class on how to be effective in politics and in community organizing and in various campaigns, but then to come from a family of legislators, literally, and to have the perspective that one’s demography was their destiny, it spoke to me about, even with the intentions of various people going about their work and having their places in society, that there really is a mindset that can hinder the realities of people that have a particular demography.
45:03
Swen Ervin: Yep.
45:05
Keonnis Taylor: It really made me just look at so many things differently, and I know that our young people today are still dealing with those same types of attitudes. If I heard that in a college classroom, I know that there are young people experiencing that.
45:24
Swen Ervin: Oh, absolutely.
45:25
Keonnis Taylor: That type of barrier.
45:27
Swen Ervin: Yeah. Yeah. What we can’t let happen is that we feed into the lie of exceptionalism. Right. That you’re the one that made it out or, you know, because there’s still folks that hold on to that talented 10th mentality, and it’s like… So the other 90%, just, what? They’re untalented? Like, what does that even mean? We all have a responsibility to use whatever platform we have to make changes and to support our community in whatever way we can.
46:17
Keonnis Taylor: Agreed! Well, Swen, I have just really enjoyed talking with you, hearing you bless us with your knowledge and just sharing your perspective and your experience. And I know that the young people in the San Francisco Unified school district and even the young people in Oakland who live in and share a community with you are just beyond blessed and just impacted by your being there. Thank you. Thank you so much.
46:50
Swen Ervin: It’s good to talk to you.
46:51
Keonnis Taylor: Likewise. Peace.